question for all who know more than me (everybody)

[mr_wilson]

Question:
Do you all think there is benefit in playing with people who are (at the risk of making value judgements) not as experienced as you are? In other words, if you are on a team somewhere, do you think it will improve you personally to go play in some outside ensemble of newcomers? Do you think working a scene with someone who isn't very familiar with improv will make you a better or worse player when you go back to your UCB team, or IO team, or wherever, where the level of improv is very high? My thinking is that playing with a "newbie" -- for lack of a better term -- could either make you a stronger, more active player, or an overbearing one who plays to a lower level. Just a matter of pure curiosity...no offence to beginners intended (I am one).

 

[benorbeen]

Well, a lot of it I bet depends on your approach to it.

<i>Do you wanna maybe teach in the future?</i> If so, "stooping" can re-acquaint you with the problems newbies have.

<i>Are you in a rut?</i> Sometimes getting back to basics can be a pleasant refresher. And it seems as if the fresher folk (as opposed to some more cerebral folks learning the heavier stuff) have a lot more innocent fun ... that could breathe some fun back in it for you if you've lost it.

<i>Are you wanting to try complex or innovative new approaches to improv out?</i> My guess is that in most cases, don't stoop for this. This might only make you frustrated, or confuse the newbies. Do this with your peers.

<i>Are you pompous or snobbish about what's good improv, but desperate to do some outside work?</i> If so, then get over yourself and don't infect newbie groups.

<i>Do you see yourself as always learning from others?</i> If so, try working with newbies for a bit, sample around.


These are gut feelings. I think they might expand to realms other than improv. Like rustling cattle, the Special Olympics, and cooking for Vegans.

Ben

P.S. New experiences often yield new perspectives on tired ideas if you're receptive to them.

 

[Dunford]

Well, hmmm, I don't really have the perspective of being an experienced player (I began improvising last October). But, I could add that, as a student, I can count among my most positive improv experiences the chances I had (in rehearsal groups, one-off workshops, and what-have-you) to work with experienced players.

For example, right after level 2 ended, I got to participate in a one day Harold workshop led by Brian McCann. This workshop was attended by folks ranging from those just finished with Level 2 (yours truly) to folks who had been on teams for years. It was a really inspiring time, for me at least, to do scenes and games and such with folks who were much more experienced than myself. It truly forced me to play at the top of my brain - the result was pure fun.

As a relative newcomer to improv, it's always a learning experience to work with the experienced folks.

just my perspective,
dan

 

[Illades]

How experienced are you?

If you're still in the first year or two I would say stick to people on your level and higher, just because it would make sense that you would still be challenging yourself to break the basic bad habits. Not that more experienced players don't have bad habits, but in the first couple years it seems (to me - and I'm new to this, but it seems to me) that you would want to work towards challenging yourself with better or equal players. Later maybe you would want to revisit the basics with new players, but I would think you would want a certain perspective before doing that. I think that at that point it could be an interesting challenge to do that. But if you're still somewhat new to it yourself, I would think the challenges still lie in basic scene and form and object work, etc, and working with people with little experience, might be an extra challenge that you may or may not need yet.

That's an opinion from someone not very experienced, but who for some reason, felt like piping up about this.

I guess, as a new, inexperienced improvisor, I would feel really grateful if a really experienced performer wanted to work with me as a challenge to himself or herself and as a fun, refreshing variety to his/her normal scene parners. However, I would feel somewhat insulted if they felt like they were doing me a favor by playing with me.

What would your intentions be and how experienced are you?

But what do I know? I'm just a hand with colored toy trucks on the fingers.

 

[mr_wilson]

no improv snob, I

I ask with nothing but pure curiosity at heart. I'm not an experienced improviser -- I've only been playing for a couple years in a (decent, I modestly think) college troupe, but certainly have no intention of going ANYWHERE to be snobbish or pretend to know something others don't.

It did cross my mind, however, after seeing a show here in the DC area and being totally disappointed with the lack of fundamentals exhibited by the players -- simple stuff like asking questions and not listening to each other that even a relative greenhorn like myself could tell was bad news made me think about it. I am a firm believer in getting as much opportunity to play with the best people you can find -- I think one always plays to the level of their partners, so the best work I've seen my fellow players and I do has been in workshop settings with really experienced teachers/coaches. In the limited experiences I have had workshopping with pros in NYC and Chicago, I have learned more than from all the college improv festivals I have been to, combined. Perhaps I am stating the obvious, though.

At any rate, in an area devoid of much high-level improv (DC, sadly) I wonder whether it would be worth it to seek out one of the schools around here and play with some people who are really just starting out. Not in a snobbish way at all (I'm no genius), but I wonder whether that kind of setting would improve me as a player. The consensus I seem to be getting is no, however. Guess I should hold out and try to take a class in NYC or Chicago someday...? Just curious as to what people who are more involved in serious improv think.

 

[DougMoe]

It's an interesting question. The bottom line is that you can always learn by playing with people you don't perform with often.

But to the specific points: no, I don't think it's of much benefit as an experienced improviser to go out and play with an ensemble of newcomers. If your idea is to impart your wisdom, everyone will probably be less frustrated if you act as a coach or director. The nature of ensemble requires that everyone be on the same page.

That said, I've been on a couple Harold teams now with a majority of experienced improvisers have been given new, less experienced members. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it isn't. In the best case, everyone grows together. In the worst, people resent the newcomer for holding the group back.

This isn't snobbery. There are ideas in improv that I didn't get my head around until I'd had a couple Level 4s. And I'm still learning. But if someone is still working on YesAnd, and I'm trying to figure out how to honor an audience's suggestion or analagous scenes or something, we clearly aren't going to see eye-to-eye.

And I think there is a base level of experience that you need to have before you can process some concepts. I don't think it's appropriate for someone out of Level 2 to teach or coach someone out of Level 1. They just don't have enough experience.

It's actually something that I've heard talk of around the UCBT. I've been in Level 4's with people that clearly should not have been in the Level 4. Level 4 is supposed to be admission by instructor consent. The same should go for some workshops. It should be clear the level that the class is going to operate at. It may benefit the people who aren't experienced enough to go over basic concepts, but it's a waste of my time and money.

I was lucky enough to enter into UCBT at a time when I could study with Armando for Level 1, Ian for Level 2, Amy in Level 3 and two Level 4s with Besser. But I was equally lucky to have some more experienced improvisers like Aaron Bergeron, Owen Burke and Danielle Schneider grace my Level 2 as a brush-up. Yes, I gained a lot from playing with them. Did they gain a lot from playing with me at the time? I doubt it.

 

[Illades]

I would like to now ammend my earlier statement, by saying that it's probably better, given your situation, to play than not to play. If that is your option, then play, and be grateful for the opportunity to play. And play some more. And soon you'll probably be playing even better.

 

[DougMoe]

As if I hadn't said enough

But to your last post, Mr. Wilson:

I think you would benefit from deciding what IDEAS or structure you are most interested in and then trying to form a group of like-minded people rather than imparting wisdom/experience on a pre-formed group.

 

[pickle jar]

Having just taken the Sills workshop with a group of people whose experience ranged from none to pro, I think I can shed some insight.

As I said in my post about that week, when I registered, I thought I was "applying", as in "there's a chance I might not get accepted". When I "got in", I was super-psyched; I have 10 years of improv on my resume, including teaching, and I thought we'd all be around the same level.

Wrongo. At first I was a little ticked off because I didn't feel I'd be challenged by some of the less experienced players, but after a couple days I saw that I was TOTALLY challenged; just in a different way than I would've liked at first. By doing scenes with people who aren't used to seeing where the scene takes them and 'not thinking', I got to work on was PROBLEM SOLVING, or what I believe Secunda refers to as damage control.

For me, it was a great chance to try and throw my ego away and just do what was necessary for the scene. Yeah, people were denying all over the place, talking constantly in a scene, or actually saying, "hey, you just walked through my blender. it's right there." HOW do you turn that stuff around and make it part of the scene? I got to work on a whole other aspect of my improv. Even if it wasn't exactly what I'd originally wanted to do.

Luckily, there were also more experienced players there, and when I got to do scenes with them, it was a completely different vibe. You still have to trust your other players; no matter what their level. That's what's sometimes hard, but if they see that you trust them, they can hopefully relax and just play.

It's nice to change up a little bit, but nothing beats working with great players who keep you on your toes. Damage control can get a bit exhausting.

 

[Billy Merritt]

I feel that I grew so much more as an Improvisationelist by hosting the Improv Jam for a year and a half. At first I did not want to do scenes with just anybody, I wanted to know that I could trust their skill level. But eventually I began to feed off of the freshness and wide eyed willingness to be on stage of the newbies. [then I would destroy them and eat thier babies]
I realized that no matter what is put out on stage, even if it is a kingsized cock-block, it is my job to make that person look good, and in turn making the scene look good. But after a year and a half of this crap..,. I'm mean geeesh some of these people are crazy, I mean really spooky.

 

[PorterMason]

I have very little experience, but:

In college we had members of our troupe who were very strong at the stuff, and some who were...less so. And while it was more of a test of your abilities to succeed in a scene with a not-so-strong partner, it was just never as good a feeling as doing a scene with someone who was great, and having the end result be a wonderful scene.

So, I sort of see working with people with less experience as a good workout, but not always creatively fulfilling.

But I'd like to diffuse my point altogether by saying I am far from experienced.

Huzzah!

 

[Illades]

I think that if there's a possibility of killing them and eating their babies, then by all means DO IT!!!! The opportunity may not present itself again and it will definitely be worth the frustration of doing a scene with someone who refuses to YESAND!

 

[PorterMason]

Right, now, if you're working with an experienced, top-notch, cream of the crop, be all you can be, aim high: air force, really great improviser, the scene should go more like:

you: "I'm going to destroy you."
them: "Yes, and why not eat a few of my many babies while you're at it?"

THAT'S a scene. THAT'S gold.

And THAT'S the kind of genius you won't get with these terrible newbie people.

 

[Billy Merritt]

Newbies have the sweetest, plump, juicy babies.
uke:

 

[PhilC]

I like working with new people because there not crusty cynical bastards.
________
Viktorya

 

[goldfish boy]

Originally posted by PhilC
I like working with new people because they're not crusty, cynical bastards.

I was a crusty, cynical bastard when I was new. Still am.

 

[Angie]

somthing Cool Gus told me

Some of you know Gus Richter and Some of you know his brother Andy...well Gus told me Andy would a lot of times jump out with "less Experienced Improvisers" ,basically the people no one else would jump out with, and he would do his damdest to make them look good (if we all remember that is our job to make our partner look good) and Andy said that is who he learned the most from, the guys no one else wanted to play with.

 

[Dunford]

Originally posted by goldfish boy

I was a crusty, cynical bastard when I was new. Still am.

I can pretty much vouch for that.

 

[Dave McKeel]

I like to be pushed beyond my comfort zone in class/practice. Playing with people more experienced than me will do that. Playing with people less experienced than me will do that. Having Andy Secunda in the room looking at me will do that. Whatever way I can achieve that objective, even if it means silently pushing myself (if the circumstances of the class are not making it happen), that's how I grow as a player....

and as a HUMAN BEING!!!

(Oh my god, that's really true.)

 

[James Eason]

Originally posted by DougMoe
...I was equally lucky to have some more experienced improvisers like Aaron Bergeron, Owen Burke and Danielle Schneider grace my Level 2 as a brush-up. Yes, I gained a lot from playing with them. Did they gain a lot from playing with me at the time?

They learned whom not join in a scene.

-James

(before you get all mad, Doug knows I love him HARD. Go see Squirrell!!!!)