PIT vs UCS vs Magnet
- Thread starter Saul
- Start date
I read through 10 pages of this thread and all I got was this post...
I hear "what's the better theatre" from a lot from people looking to get into improv. For me personally I picked UCB to study at because it was the "philosophy" I agreed with and I enjoyed the shows. It was what I found funny and wanted to do.
If you have the money, what's to keep you from taking courses at different theatres? If I had the money I would be taking classes at the Magnet and The Pit at the same time as UCB. Why? Why not. I think you can only benefit from learning different ideals in improv and seeing what suits you best.
My experience with teachers at UCB has been nothing but great and extremely beneficial (With the exception of Bluvband in which I found myself in a similar situation as Coco in that creepy apartment in the movie Fame). Every teacher I've had has offered something new for me to explore and work on.
I recently took Anthony's 501 and it really did open my eyes to some simple things I was overlooking. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit nervous taking the class, but those nerves disappeared toward the end because it was such a great learning experience for me.
I know this isn't entirely on topic but it kind of reminded me of something...
I don't see why people get so sensitive to harsh notes. It's part of growing and learning in any craft. I don't want someone to tell me "yeah, that was ok. next scene". I want those notes. How can you get any better if you don't get those detailed notes? There's no need to take them so personally or think that that teacher hates you. They're there to help you get better at this. Not to be your friend, not to be your enemy, but to help you understand and develop the skills to perform well. I think our egos get too much in the way of just listening to what's being said. Sometimes we just like to cry and play the victim rather than take responsibility and move forward.
You don't care for a class or felt bad because a teacher didn't make you feel cozy and special? So be it. Class is over. There are dozens of other teachers and courses and 3 theatres to chose from. Move on.
Trust me, I get REALLY down on myself about my performances and of course you'll have those moments of "What the fuck am I doing? I'm not funny! I'm going to quit", but the thing is there's so much opportunity to grow and discover and to "redeem". Why waste energy dwelling on it and just fucking do something about it?
OK. Just wanted to get that out there.
Time for bed, ya jerks.
I hear "what's the better theatre" from a lot from people looking to get into improv. For me personally I picked UCB to study at because it was the "philosophy" I agreed with and I enjoyed the shows. It was what I found funny and wanted to do.
If you have the money, what's to keep you from taking courses at different theatres? If I had the money I would be taking classes at the Magnet and The Pit at the same time as UCB. Why? Why not. I think you can only benefit from learning different ideals in improv and seeing what suits you best.
My experience with teachers at UCB has been nothing but great and extremely beneficial (With the exception of Bluvband in which I found myself in a similar situation as Coco in that creepy apartment in the movie Fame). Every teacher I've had has offered something new for me to explore and work on.
I recently took Anthony's 501 and it really did open my eyes to some simple things I was overlooking. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit nervous taking the class, but those nerves disappeared toward the end because it was such a great learning experience for me.
I know this isn't entirely on topic but it kind of reminded me of something...
I don't see why people get so sensitive to harsh notes. It's part of growing and learning in any craft. I don't want someone to tell me "yeah, that was ok. next scene". I want those notes. How can you get any better if you don't get those detailed notes? There's no need to take them so personally or think that that teacher hates you. They're there to help you get better at this. Not to be your friend, not to be your enemy, but to help you understand and develop the skills to perform well. I think our egos get too much in the way of just listening to what's being said. Sometimes we just like to cry and play the victim rather than take responsibility and move forward.
You don't care for a class or felt bad because a teacher didn't make you feel cozy and special? So be it. Class is over. There are dozens of other teachers and courses and 3 theatres to chose from. Move on.
Trust me, I get REALLY down on myself about my performances and of course you'll have those moments of "What the fuck am I doing? I'm not funny! I'm going to quit", but the thing is there's so much opportunity to grow and discover and to "redeem". Why waste energy dwelling on it and just fucking do something about it?
OK. Just wanted to get that out there.
Time for bed, ya jerks.
I could not agree more. I've paid $350 for a class; I want to know how to improve. I don't care if it's through tough notes or just notes, but I want to know.
If I disagree with a note, then I will either talk to the teacher about it after class, or talk it over with some of my friends, to see if they know where my teacher was coming from. One of the great things about UCB and its teachers is that I have never, ever got the impression that any note or decision was personal. In fact, with some of my favorite teachers, each note felt less like a criticism than an honest appraisal: "I liked that, but you can do better." (Gethard and Wengert were both amazing at this.)
Perhaps UCB should have each student fill out a questionnaire at the beginning of the first class:
Do you prefer your notes on scenes to be:
(A) Non-existent.
(B) Cuddly.
(C) Kind.
(D) Harsh.
(E) Harsher.
(F) Bluvband.
If I disagree with a note, then I will either talk to the teacher about it after class, or talk it over with some of my friends, to see if they know where my teacher was coming from. One of the great things about UCB and its teachers is that I have never, ever got the impression that any note or decision was personal. In fact, with some of my favorite teachers, each note felt less like a criticism than an honest appraisal: "I liked that, but you can do better." (Gethard and Wengert were both amazing at this.)
Perhaps UCB should have each student fill out a questionnaire at the beginning of the first class:
Do you prefer your notes on scenes to be:
(A) Non-existent.
(B) Cuddly.
(C) Kind.
(D) Harsh.
(E) Harsher.
(F) Bluvband.
WOWSERS! I wish I had posted this near the first page of this thread:
http://butts.ytmnd.com/
I'm going to have to make some popcorn and get comfy in a Papasan nest to read this. UCB RULES! Bluvband should start a school!
Oh and in all seriousness, Anthony was one of the most helpful and committed teachers I've had in the history of me going to any school. His in-depth notes and genuine interest in our progress as improvisers was a big plus! I always go back to that email to remind myself of where I was then as an improviser, how far I've come, and stuff I still need to work on.
http://butts.ytmnd.com/
I'm going to have to make some popcorn and get comfy in a Papasan nest to read this. UCB RULES! Bluvband should start a school!
Oh and in all seriousness, Anthony was one of the most helpful and committed teachers I've had in the history of me going to any school. His in-depth notes and genuine interest in our progress as improvisers was a big plus! I always go back to that email to remind myself of where I was then as an improviser, how far I've come, and stuff I still need to work on.
I have a few slightly different viewpoints.
1st: I played piano for a silent harold class Anthony did, and as an observer and NOT hamstrung by being a student, I thought he did a good job. If anything I thought he was one of the more professional "we're here to work and not to bullshit" teachers I've experienced.
That being said, and just to show I'm capable of understanding both sides:
2nd: I've had a class or two (with other instructors) at UCB with less than satisfactory experiences. BUT:
The important thing to note is this: nobody's perfect, and I've also had classes with people considered the best at their field (musical master classes, for example) and sometimes you can be great but not teach, or you can be great and teach great but be a little off for a class, or sometimes they are great in all aspects, you are great in all aspects, and the two of you don't gel. It happens.
One of my biggest complaints with improv teachers in general is the idea that everything has to be so supportive that you can never say "well....that wasn't so good". Having a mix of 'supportive' teachers and 'stern' teachers is important. We are going to be on stage people - if you can't take a little pressure you might want to re-think this choice of performance.
I've had disagreements with teachers, and I always told the teacher one on one if I had a real problem, or filled out an eval if it couldn't be solved by one-on-one. You as a student have that right, after all, because you are paying for a service! On the other hand, dissing a teacher in front of the class is a sign of disrespect. The dynamic between teacher/student, mentor/mentee, Sifu/kung fu student, is a one that is *grounded in respect for the teacher* above all things. Even if you think the teacher fucking sucks, maybe you don't use them again, but you don't disrespect.
I did a fucking shitty scene once for Sean Conroy and when it was nearly done he looked me dead in the eye and said the famous "....aaaaanddd scene...." and that note was worth the whole cost of the class. As I recall, I think Risa winced in pain when he did that: Bonus.
Lastly: if you truly are a student, you should be able to take a level 1 class with an instructor you don't think is great and still get something out of it, because in the end, if you are standing in a attitude of learning and truly completely open to learning you *will* learn something.
1st: I played piano for a silent harold class Anthony did, and as an observer and NOT hamstrung by being a student, I thought he did a good job. If anything I thought he was one of the more professional "we're here to work and not to bullshit" teachers I've experienced.
That being said, and just to show I'm capable of understanding both sides:
2nd: I've had a class or two (with other instructors) at UCB with less than satisfactory experiences. BUT:
The important thing to note is this: nobody's perfect, and I've also had classes with people considered the best at their field (musical master classes, for example) and sometimes you can be great but not teach, or you can be great and teach great but be a little off for a class, or sometimes they are great in all aspects, you are great in all aspects, and the two of you don't gel. It happens.
One of my biggest complaints with improv teachers in general is the idea that everything has to be so supportive that you can never say "well....that wasn't so good". Having a mix of 'supportive' teachers and 'stern' teachers is important. We are going to be on stage people - if you can't take a little pressure you might want to re-think this choice of performance.
I've had disagreements with teachers, and I always told the teacher one on one if I had a real problem, or filled out an eval if it couldn't be solved by one-on-one. You as a student have that right, after all, because you are paying for a service! On the other hand, dissing a teacher in front of the class is a sign of disrespect. The dynamic between teacher/student, mentor/mentee, Sifu/kung fu student, is a one that is *grounded in respect for the teacher* above all things. Even if you think the teacher fucking sucks, maybe you don't use them again, but you don't disrespect.
I did a fucking shitty scene once for Sean Conroy and when it was nearly done he looked me dead in the eye and said the famous "....aaaaanddd scene...." and that note was worth the whole cost of the class. As I recall, I think Risa winced in pain when he did that: Bonus.
Lastly: if you truly are a student, you should be able to take a level 1 class with an instructor you don't think is great and still get something out of it, because in the end, if you are standing in a attitude of learning and truly completely open to learning you *will* learn something.
Armondo Diaz and Asaf Ronen were the best teachers I had.
I took classes with Armondo when he taught independantly of any theater and when he was at the PIT.
Asaf taught independant classes as well.
I am not of fan of which theater is better since I started taking classes when only UCB was teaching long form. I would encourage people to go to all 3 theaters if one can afford it.
I also took Meisner classes which were extremely helpful and got me out of my head more than any improv class.
Curtis can be harsh notes any time. It doesn't even need to be about improv.
I took classes with Armondo when he taught independantly of any theater and when he was at the PIT.
Asaf taught independant classes as well.
I am not of fan of which theater is better since I started taking classes when only UCB was teaching long form. I would encourage people to go to all 3 theaters if one can afford it.
I also took Meisner classes which were extremely helpful and got me out of my head more than any improv class.
Curtis can be harsh notes any time. It doesn't even need to be about improv.
I don't think that the style of note-giving is dispositive of a positive class experience. But then I'm pretty thick-skinned about these things. Some of my best teachers gave direct (or 'harsh') notes; some of my least favorite teachers were more easygoing, or "cuddly." Some were a wonderful mix of both (Bob Acevedo and Billy Merritt, two of my favorites) were very disciplined and very warm at the same time. Except for the beatings. Oh, the beatings.
Bluvband hasn't ever given me a note. Yet.
Bluvband hasn't ever given me a note. Yet.
attempting to do what's been asked of me (us?)
man, i wish i got here earlier.
i have almost only taken classes at UCB and have found that experience to be overall very positive. i chose it because i had heard of it. i have stayed because i like it. though i have plans to branch out for the sake of branching out.
my overarching viewpoint on the AvsBvsC subject is that experience is paramount. if you want to taste improv it doesn't matter where you start. if you have tasted and crave it constantly, it doesn't matter where you go because you'll likely be pretty happy wherever you are (because you're doing something you love), or you'll try other things (theatres/teachers) if you're not. in summary: if you like improv you'll probably do it forever anyway, so just go somewhere and decide for yourself. if you're completely new, you have so much learning and experiencing and playing to do that i think the issue of which teacher/theatre is way less important than you just getting into a class and giving it a shot, so you can fall deeply in love with it like so many of us before you have.
my favorite teachers have been shannon o'neill in her 501 class at ucb where she focused very heavily on what can be done with a harold organically (largely, yes-anding non-scene elements and/or inter-scene elements and/or themes); porter mason in his 600 level: the documentary class at ucb where i learned a great deal about playing real (what truth in comedy really means), and about the difference between a series of scenes and a show; and, sure enough, anthony king in his 501 class at ucb where i learned that almost every issue i have as an improviser can be aided by more effectively yes-anding (seriously, almost everything), and that the opening of a show is its overture. style for me is not as important as philosophy, just so you know.
and back to the experience is paramount idea, i've had several classes where i had been told quite a bit about the teacher beforehand and found the teacher to be near the opposite of what i had heard. for example, michael delaney was rumored to be mean and intimidating, and i found him to be very sweet, honest, and truly caring about our improv well-being. so just try it out. what's the worst that could happen? seriously. what is the worst that could happen?
i honestly hope this helps somebody.
man, i wish i got here earlier.
i have almost only taken classes at UCB and have found that experience to be overall very positive. i chose it because i had heard of it. i have stayed because i like it. though i have plans to branch out for the sake of branching out.
my overarching viewpoint on the AvsBvsC subject is that experience is paramount. if you want to taste improv it doesn't matter where you start. if you have tasted and crave it constantly, it doesn't matter where you go because you'll likely be pretty happy wherever you are (because you're doing something you love), or you'll try other things (theatres/teachers) if you're not. in summary: if you like improv you'll probably do it forever anyway, so just go somewhere and decide for yourself. if you're completely new, you have so much learning and experiencing and playing to do that i think the issue of which teacher/theatre is way less important than you just getting into a class and giving it a shot, so you can fall deeply in love with it like so many of us before you have.
my favorite teachers have been shannon o'neill in her 501 class at ucb where she focused very heavily on what can be done with a harold organically (largely, yes-anding non-scene elements and/or inter-scene elements and/or themes); porter mason in his 600 level: the documentary class at ucb where i learned a great deal about playing real (what truth in comedy really means), and about the difference between a series of scenes and a show; and, sure enough, anthony king in his 501 class at ucb where i learned that almost every issue i have as an improviser can be aided by more effectively yes-anding (seriously, almost everything), and that the opening of a show is its overture. style for me is not as important as philosophy, just so you know.
and back to the experience is paramount idea, i've had several classes where i had been told quite a bit about the teacher beforehand and found the teacher to be near the opposite of what i had heard. for example, michael delaney was rumored to be mean and intimidating, and i found him to be very sweet, honest, and truly caring about our improv well-being. so just try it out. what's the worst that could happen? seriously. what is the worst that could happen?
i honestly hope this helps somebody.
(In order of their establishment in NYC)
I have not taken any classes, or have seen Chicago City Limits, but I just checked out their site and I'm quite interested. I think you hear less about CCL on these boards than you do about Gotham (aside from El Jefe saying it's awesome). It almost seems that they are doing the sort of revues that Second City first started doing way, way back in the day.
I hear Gotham can be really, really fun. Starts you up in short form and then moves you into long form, which produces an interesting performance style. It would seem that this form of performance would be great for getting corporate gigs and playing benefits. Plus they were originally founded by the Groundlings (and then left on a door step), which is interesting.
UCB is what? Ten years old? No, it's older than that, slightly older than that. Eh they've been around for a decent amount of time. They solidified the New York long form improv scene, brought some of the best teachers from Chicago to New York (many of whom now teach at other improv training centers) and as one can see they have a lot of people going through their program. Their style has altered slightly throughout the years from what I can tell (now using a pretty set curriculum in teaching the levels), I haven't taken any classes there, I've seen plenty of shows and like some of the performers from the older days and some from these new crazy days. I may take classes there but then again I might not, I don't feel too pressed.
The P.I.T. seems like a great alternative to UCB. The course work is intense and there are many awesome electives taught by random guest instructors that have interested me time and time again. I'm also told, and I get the impression, that the PIT is a great place to go if you wanted to be a writer as they offer classes specifically geared towards writing in the style of several of the more popular New York based comedy television shows. I am also told that they're pretty foot loose and fancy free.
The Magnet Theater, I love it and it is the theater I tend to gravitate towards as they've been pretty good to me. It's relatively small in comparison to a titan such as UCB which isn't a horrible thing as it is easy to make ones presence known in the theater and you can get a lot of stage time if you really want it. The training, in my opinion, deals more with building a connection between the characters on stage than with finding the game of the scene, that said the game of a scene is not ignored, rather it's just one element that adds to the piece as a whole. I've been told the Magnet has a more actorly feel to it, meaning that it looks at improv as a theatrical performance. I'd say that's kind of partly true. I've only heard this from theatery people though. Non-theatrical people who go through the classes have never mentioned this to me. Eh I like them and could say more as I have the most experience with this theater than the others but I'd be turning into a mouthpiece for the theater and that's lame. I will say that they have some sexy house managers though.
The City... do they have classes yet? Do they have a website? Are they even doing those bloody town hall meeting symposium thingies that they said they were going to do? Because I'd like to see one. I'm a nerd though, but then so are many, many, many of you (hence you being on this forum).
Dave Bluvband's Improv School is interesting. It started off with Dave teaching one or two workshops in random areas of the country, totally ignoring the New York improv community. After a year or two of training across the country Bluvband returned to his New York and found a community of improvisers lusting after his beefy improv brain. He now teaches open air classes that have names similar to the levels at UCB. His classes are rain or shine, and in my experience it is almost always raining (though Bluvand normally stays dry under a tent with a heater and hot chocolate machine). He's a hard man, but you'd have to be if you were a one man improv training facility. If you study with him you will go through hell but you will come back as one of the elite improvisers. His classes are quite pricey though, and the intern program sucks ass for while you do get the honor of getting free emails about Bluvband's up coming shows, you do not get free class credit.
I have not taken any classes, or have seen Chicago City Limits, but I just checked out their site and I'm quite interested. I think you hear less about CCL on these boards than you do about Gotham (aside from El Jefe saying it's awesome). It almost seems that they are doing the sort of revues that Second City first started doing way, way back in the day.
I hear Gotham can be really, really fun. Starts you up in short form and then moves you into long form, which produces an interesting performance style. It would seem that this form of performance would be great for getting corporate gigs and playing benefits. Plus they were originally founded by the Groundlings (and then left on a door step), which is interesting.
UCB is what? Ten years old? No, it's older than that, slightly older than that. Eh they've been around for a decent amount of time. They solidified the New York long form improv scene, brought some of the best teachers from Chicago to New York (many of whom now teach at other improv training centers) and as one can see they have a lot of people going through their program. Their style has altered slightly throughout the years from what I can tell (now using a pretty set curriculum in teaching the levels), I haven't taken any classes there, I've seen plenty of shows and like some of the performers from the older days and some from these new crazy days. I may take classes there but then again I might not, I don't feel too pressed.
The P.I.T. seems like a great alternative to UCB. The course work is intense and there are many awesome electives taught by random guest instructors that have interested me time and time again. I'm also told, and I get the impression, that the PIT is a great place to go if you wanted to be a writer as they offer classes specifically geared towards writing in the style of several of the more popular New York based comedy television shows. I am also told that they're pretty foot loose and fancy free.
The Magnet Theater, I love it and it is the theater I tend to gravitate towards as they've been pretty good to me. It's relatively small in comparison to a titan such as UCB which isn't a horrible thing as it is easy to make ones presence known in the theater and you can get a lot of stage time if you really want it. The training, in my opinion, deals more with building a connection between the characters on stage than with finding the game of the scene, that said the game of a scene is not ignored, rather it's just one element that adds to the piece as a whole. I've been told the Magnet has a more actorly feel to it, meaning that it looks at improv as a theatrical performance. I'd say that's kind of partly true. I've only heard this from theatery people though. Non-theatrical people who go through the classes have never mentioned this to me. Eh I like them and could say more as I have the most experience with this theater than the others but I'd be turning into a mouthpiece for the theater and that's lame. I will say that they have some sexy house managers though.
The City... do they have classes yet? Do they have a website? Are they even doing those bloody town hall meeting symposium thingies that they said they were going to do? Because I'd like to see one. I'm a nerd though, but then so are many, many, many of you (hence you being on this forum).
Dave Bluvband's Improv School is interesting. It started off with Dave teaching one or two workshops in random areas of the country, totally ignoring the New York improv community. After a year or two of training across the country Bluvband returned to his New York and found a community of improvisers lusting after his beefy improv brain. He now teaches open air classes that have names similar to the levels at UCB. His classes are rain or shine, and in my experience it is almost always raining (though Bluvand normally stays dry under a tent with a heater and hot chocolate machine). He's a hard man, but you'd have to be if you were a one man improv training facility. If you study with him you will go through hell but you will come back as one of the elite improvisers. His classes are quite pricey though, and the intern program sucks ass for while you do get the honor of getting free emails about Bluvband's up coming shows, you do not get free class credit.
Yeah sorry Dan. I'm not even going to try and help you on this one.
If anything we are lightyears BEHIND what they were doing back in the fifties in terms of movie trailers. The only good movie trailers are the parody ones that make movies like the Shining look like a family comedy (which it kind of is depending on your humor and/or your family).
If anything we are lightyears BEHIND what they were doing back in the fifties in terms of movie trailers. The only good movie trailers are the parody ones that make movies like the Shining look like a family comedy (which it kind of is depending on your humor and/or your family).
For those of you who are interested, Chicago City Limits and the PIT are joining forces to bring the show and classes downtown for the improv community. We'll be doing two shows at the PIT in May, as well as a special weekend intensive workshop for experienced improvisors, with a class show at the end of the weekend. This has been something I've been trying to get done for a while... I can't wait to see people who have been taking classes at the PIT, UCB and Magnet take a crack at doing a CCL-type show.
I did almost all my improv classes at the UCB before auditioning for the Chicago City Limits touring company, though I had been coached in musical improv by CCL's Rob Schiffmann and Travis Ploeger. Studying both of those different approaches to improv made me a much better improvisor and introduced me to some of the smartest, funniest and most supportive comedians I know.
I did almost all my improv classes at the UCB before auditioning for the Chicago City Limits touring company, though I had been coached in musical improv by CCL's Rob Schiffmann and Travis Ploeger. Studying both of those different approaches to improv made me a much better improvisor and introduced me to some of the smartest, funniest and most supportive comedians I know.