Personal Improv Trajectories

[high violet]

I've been doing improv for 6 years. I love it. I've performed at least once a week for the last 2-3 years and with the same group for 4 years. Our group has gotten nice press and a great following.

I've still never been accepted to a house team at the big LA theatres though or a part of their community. Is that a "normal" trajectory for an improviser in NY/LA? Can you do this succesfully for 10 years and never get traction in the theatres?

3 years in I still considered myself new and thought the acceptance would come in time if I just did my work and stayed truthful to my improviser voice. At 5 years I got a little antsy and I noticed everyone I took basic classes with either stopped improvising or they were finally breaking into the house teams. Now at 6 years I feel odd, as that isn't the longest time to be improvising but it finally feels like I'm no longer an "improv baby" or kid.

I also feel a little too old to re-try breaking into a community or school. I feel like it requires a bit of baby faced, freshman enthusiasm and obsession to become "one of the guys" and like that opportunity has already sailed for me. I guess my main question is, are there people here who have been able to improvise for 10+ years without the backing or support of a theatre or community? If you aren't one of the gang after a certain time are you just not meant to ever be part of those theatre's creative plans or are there people who make their first Harold team at year 8 after auditioning 5 or 6 times?

 

[mike short]

I don't know. I've been improvising in New York since 2005, and overall since 1999. I've been in and out of the house team system at one theater. I doubt that I'm considered any artistic director's go-to guy for projects. I still have to hustle and pitch and face rejection to get shows up at theaters. I am not considered a New York improv super-star by any means, and I don't feel like I'm on any inner circle of upper-echelon players.

But I'm still here. After a lot of people have fallen out of love with this thing, or found it too hard, or just not the thing they wanted to do and moved on, I'm still here. And I'm a good improvisor, and a better one than I was in 2005, and one that's still growing. I'm still here, and I'm gonna still be here. And that's success.

If you think you're too old at 6 years in, I feel sorry for you man. I've had to restart a couple of times. First, when I jumped from college improv to professional classes when I was in Ohio, and again when I moved to NYC. And then about two years ago I finally started at 101 at a different theater and I've slowly made my way through the program. And in doing so I've actually found a couple of new people that I really like playing with. I doubt that I'll ever get on a house team at this very competitive theater, nor do I have that as my sole goal. My personal trajectory is to keep on doing this in some form for as long as I can. Oh, I've got some crazy pipe dreams, probably the same as any opinionated improvisor has. But that's not as important as getting to do improv that I care about with people I like to play with.

 

[high violet]

To clarify, I don't think I'm "too old" to take a 101 or start a new program.

I feel more like I'm "too old" to spend 4 nights a week at a theatre socially, volunteering as an intern the other 3 nights and essentially waiting in the social wings until I get called up to play with the regulars. This might be part of my unrealistic, idealistic utopia in my head but I'd just like to gain a rep from my performances in shows and have my free/social time available to non-improv gatherings and people. I still see my improv work and shows as something very separate from my personal and social life.

To make an analogy to college, I feel "too old" to live in the improv dorms and go to improv toga parties, which I remember were an essential part of my first 2-4 years of improvising at various theatres' schools. I attended some parties and put my face time in and I was rewarded with a temporary guest performer slot on a big theatre's house team, which was super fun and I miss a lot, but I saw how much effort it took just to sniff the stage and I sort of naturally knew it wasn't worth it IMO and I faded out and focused on other things. Now, 3 years later, I can't make it past round 1 of any audition at the same theatre I was once a guest performer with. It is kind of weird to think I've gotten much better in 3 years but I'm farther back then where I was before. Making up that ground in lost traction feels like a ton of work, and not "on stage work", more work in making myself familiar again socially.

On the other end of the spectrum, everyone who I started with who still does improv at the big theatres still lives in 'improv apartments', spend all their free time at the theatre and share their weddings, partners, breakups and everything with the same community. I can see and accept and respect the amount of work and time it takes to be a part of a competitive creative community but right now, for me, trying to re-break in would feel like a 35 year old guy in an Abercrombie shirt and combover trying to sneak into his old college's fraternity. Just wondering if that is a normal "year 6" feeling or if most people at this juncture are either on the inside of the scene by now or out of the game.

 

[mikelibrarian]

Please read the first paragraph of your first post. You're winning. Having a successful artistic outlet where you're in control is so much better than relying on a venue where you're so, so replaceable.

I have friends that are in the exact same boat as you. They have successful independent teams, but they haven't made it onto a house team at their theater after 5-7 years of trying, and they're frustrated, so you're not alone.

I've just started a program at a theater, and I've been an improvisor for seven years. I'm doing so because I've fallen in love with the community and right now the fact that the upper level classes have multiple class shows is enough of an attraction to me that I am not concerned about getting on a house team.

New York is filled with people in 101 classes who have 5-10 years experience in other cities, and I'm sure LA is the same way. Frankly, I wish I knew that when I first started out. Instead I was intimidated by all the "natural" talents who surrounded me.

 

[high violet]

You're right. It makes me feel better to hear other people in other large cities being in the same boat. It is just very easy to think the grass is greener on the other side or "Why can't I have both sides?" especially when you come up and see your "class" of peers get sucked into the theatre systems and find entire careers inside that system. I want in!

 

[goldfish boy]

Would you really rather be on a theater house team where you're thrown in with people you didn't choose, expected to adhere to the theater's aesthetic, and perform for an audience of fellow improvisers, than continue with your longstanding group that performs once a week, gets nice press and a great following?

 

[El Jefe]

I'm coming up on my 10-year anniversary of performing improv. I have had a lot of ups and downs. I'm in a much happier place, improv-wise, so I tend towards optimism.

What your feeling is definitely par for the course. Even those comedians who have had a stable relationship with one theater, a theater that appreciates them and give them lots of stage time, have moments when they "compare and despair" with others who have had more success. So it's natural that, for those of us who have had to try harder to find a home, there are times when you wonder if it's all worth it.

Finding recognition in the improv world is a bit like finding love in the real world. You do have to recognize when a theater is, for whatever reason, "just not that into you." Sometimes you have to stop looking for recognition in order to find it. Being too desperate for recognition makes you less desirable, and being confident attracts people to you... that sort of thing.

It's good to check in with yourself periodically and see what's making you happy and what's actually helping you. Are you going to parties or shows because you want to see people or because you think you should? Does interning make you resentful enough that it's not worth it? Are you on too many teams, taking too many classes? What I've found is that it's a good thing to step back every once a while and find out for myself what I really want to do, and then pursue only what's most important.

 

[sodapony]

It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I think I can totally see where you are coming from. I'm planning a move to LA from my relatively small pond, where I've regularly performed in improv shows for the past 5 years. It's not even a pursuit of comedy aspirations, it just worked out that way. Improv has become such a big part of my life that I don't want to give it up and I don't think I can do without it. The prospect of going through an entire curriculum of classes doesn't sound optimal to me, but I can accept it. There's always plenty more to learn and you always meet some great people in improv classes. What I'm not sure about is the social commitment it takes to become enough of a part of a new, tight knit community to actually be considered someone that would be in the running for a house team spot. It's not that the process would be so bad, it's just that I'm in my mid thirties now. Doing a class, a practice group, an indie night and and a theater night (at a minimum) every week may not fit into my schedule. Who will sit at home and sip my single malt scotch? Who will watch CBS?? Who the fuck is going to manage my eTrade account!?!?!


And I don't think aspiring to be on a theater house team is something anyone should feel guilty about. It is presumably where the best performers are. If you want to do the best work, that seems like a reasonable place to be. Putting on a tirelessly marketed show with your friends and barely making enough money to break even on the cost of the venue can be really fun, but that may not be every one's ultimate fulfillment. Even if the main motivation is recognition, I wouldn't begrudge anyone that.

Also, this definitely rang true with me.

Finding recognition in the improv world is a bit like finding love in the real world. You do have to recognize when a theater is, for whatever reason, "just not that into you." Sometimes you have to stop looking for recognition in order to find it. Being too desperate for recognition makes you less desirable, and being confident attracts people to you... that sort of thing.

Anyway, I don't think you're unique in feeling this way. *fist bump of solidarity*

 

[Hawkins]

Find people you like

Play forever.

There is nothing on the top of improv mountain.

No theater is going to say "okay, you're good enough now" that will ever sate you, you need to be comfortable with yourself. Soon as you think you've "made it," your team will get cut or break up.

Even those "improv gods" are in waiting rooms here in L.A. going up against you for roles.

So fuck need, it's the ultimate monkey.

 

[Mr. Stampede]

Form your own team, get super good, propose a show to the theaters.

 

[high violet]

I'm going to seem dumb but we actually did that for our current weekly show. Here is the part where I will sound dumb: it is at an indie theatre with a tiny community and not at one of the big dogs. Rationally I know the approval thing has no satisfying end but it is easy to judge & compare yourself to others who seem to have both theatre & fan approval. This also sounds dumb but I don't think I'll ever have an aspiring improviser or fan of improv post about me on here or AST, referring to me as a great improviser, unless I get on a Harold team at his favorite big theatre. There is a part of me that would love that small recognition from the comedy nerd community that follows certain theatres.

 

[mike short]

I took a class with James Eason a few years ago. the class was improvising in a way as if to prove to each other that we were all indeed funny. It was in, I think, the second class when Eason turned to us all and said "You know you're in a room with some of the most famous improvisors in the world?"

Validation feels great. Honestly, it sounds like you're struggling with the same thing I struggle with: I would love it for people to go "Michael Short? Great improvisor." every time they hear my name. I would love it if, every time my one theater put together a showcase show they asked me to be a part of it.

Not only is it not going to happen, but playing for that validation is meaningless. You can't play to impress other people. You can't play to make other people think you're great. There's no such thing as a famous improvisor. (Go ahead! Ask your mom if she knows who TJ and Dave are!) And you can't hinge your sense of success on one theater. You just have to play and do good improv at whatever stage will have you.

I know the want, though, and I've been working on reconciling that want in my head. It's hard, and I don't think it ever truly goes away. I think, actually, that taking a level 1 class at another theater might really be the healthiest thing for you. When I took level 1 at the other theater, I made it a point to not say a word about how much improv I had done before. And it turned out that, by not swinging my proverbial improv dick around, I got along much better with my classmates than I had in the first theater's level 1. And people did want to get on stage with me. And at the end of the class, I had heard second-hand that the teacher thought i was good (and that when the tech booth operator told her I had coached him before and had such-and-such an experience level she said "Oh, that explains it.") In other words, I felt pretty validated. And I got there by actively not seeking validation.

This is not to say that I am perfect now and want for nothing. I still fret that no one ever calls me up and asks me to be part of their new show and what does that say about how people view me? It is tough and I get it. But I also know the good things don't happen because you complained them into existence. You have to go and work hard for this thing.

No one is keeping you from the stage. Not really.

 

[El Jefe]

I'm going to seem dumb but we actually did that for our current weekly show. Here is the part where I will sound dumb: it is at an indie theatre with a tiny community and not at one of the big dogs. Rationally I know the approval thing has no satisfying end but it is easy to judge & compare yourself to others who seem to have both theatre & fan approval. This also sounds dumb but I don't think I'll ever have an aspiring improviser or fan of improv post about me on here or AST, referring to me as a great improviser, unless I get on a Harold team at his favorite big theatre. There is a part of me that would love that small recognition from the comedy nerd community that follows certain theatres.

None of this sounds dumb at all. Trying to get respect from the people you respect is a noble if perilous quest.

 

[ALuisPereira]

 

[drewtarvin]

This is a great thread with many people expressing feelings I have or have had.

One thing I would add is that, like just almost everything else, "success" in the improv community is about relationships. People casting shows (either at a big theater or for their next indie run) aren't thinking "Who's put in a lot of time at the theater" or "Who's ALWAYS around?" They're thinking "who do I know?" (consciously or sub-consciously).

Which makes sense in many ways. If you're casting 20 spots out of 400 people, you're going to be biased towards people you're familiar with. Do I take this person who I've never seen before but had a good 10-minute audition, or this person who didn't necessarily have the best audition but has done great work in classes, has a decent personality and isn't likely to cause problems on a team.

As for getting picked for shows, it's similar to when you're starting an indie team. You want to know the best way to get your team booked for an indie show? Go to shows, talk to the organizers afterwards and mention that your group would love to do the show sometime. Chances are you'll get the opportunity to do so. Better yet, host your own indie show night and invite teams to play. They'll often return the favor.

Same thing for getting picked for people's projects. Start one of your own and ask people you like to be on it. They'll remember that when they're casting their next one.

Finally (and sorry for the rambling thoughts) the hardest thing to do is to define what success means to you. Is success being on a house team at a big theater? If so, that's great, but it also means certain work (the "improv dorm" as mentioned above). Is it to be on a team that performs regularly? That's also great, but it can have a different path (such as indie shows or smaller theaters, or perhaps even in smaller cities). Is it to be famous? That's also great (see the pattern?), but that means improv may not be the best performance venue then, start working on sketch, acting or stand-up in addition to the yes and.

 

[sodapony]

 

[Mr. Stampede]

I know what you're saying, the big theaters don't care about me either. So instead I taught improv in Norway and Canada and 35 states, and on MTV, and wrote a book that's sold thousands of copies. In July I'm teaching and performing in Australia. It can work out okay.

 

[JerryBoy]

High Violet.

I have a few questions.

How often do you improvise? You say at least a week for the past 2-3 years. What about before that?

How often do you do practice groups, take classes and see shows over the past 6 years?

 

[Holmes]

Do you want to improvise or socialize?

 

[high violet]

High Violet.

I have a few questions.

How often do you improvise? You say at least a week for the past 2-3 years. What about before that?

How often do you do practice groups, take classes and see shows over the past 6 years?

I haven't done the student/practice group stuff in about 3 years. When I was going through UCB I sat in on a few practice team rehearsals- one team I am still friends with, one team never contacted me again and one team made my friend call me and say he "accidentally" invited me without asking the rest of the group. The guy was really cool/nice/funny but his teammates were a bit immature/cliquish.

It has also been about 2-3 years since I've actively went out and watched shows that my friends weren't in.

Do you want to improvise or socialize?

Improvise. I don't mind socializing but it isn't my first priority. I have a girlfriend and a group of best friends. When I'm at a show I'm usually there to have a good time, perform a good set and then head home. I also don't drink or smoke weed so that might factor in when deciding whether to go next door for drinks or to meet at a nearby apartment after a show. Most of my close improv friends are in their mid 30s and socialize without drinks/weed and are probably more eager to go home and sleep than I am.