Narrative vs. Game: Can they coexist?

#1
Hi IRC fans,

a member of my troupe who went through UCB 101-401 told me upon watching TJ & Dave: Trust Us, that he is certain that narrative & game cannot coexist. I don't have the theoretical knowledge to support or deny this claim but thought some of you on this board could share your ideas.

Thanks in advance,

Patrick McInnis
 

El Jefe

latitudinarian
Staff member
#2
Of course they can. Just because it's challenging doesn't mean it's impossible.

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is a feature-length Charlie Chaplin or Buster Keaton movie. There's a grander, overarching plot that they basically hang their bits/scenes on.
 

amn

philanthro-capitalist
#3
I would think that if you were playing game and making good moves you would end up having a narrative naturally and you just wouldn't speak to it directly or really focus on it at all until, maybe, the scene is over and you're reflecting.
 
#4
I don't think comedy exists without some form of game. It may not be the focus of the scene, but you can see the roots of a game regardless. Even in stand up jokes, you can usually disect a game out of each joke.
 
#7
They can't co-exist...if your ultimate goal is to play hyper-game based improv to an nth degree.

If your goal is a bit looser and open, you can follow narrative and you can follow game and you can follow abstract connections and if it is performed well by talented people it will be funny and entertaining.
 
#8
What if after I fall down a flight of stairs I tell a story about a time a thief accidentally robbed a zoo and ended up raising a monkey. That's hysterical but it is off game. Explain that.
 
#10
If you're talking about Game in the sense of finding something funny, making a pattern out of it, quickly hitting it three times, and then getting out of it within two minutes and onto a new scene, then I suppose you are correct - it can't coexist with narrative. But if you're talking about Game in the broader sense then I think it can. What are some of the elements of Game? Two that come to mind are unusual behavior and justification. So we can definitely play with those in a bit more of a Long Game. A longer narrative piece needs interesting behavior to sustain it over the longer period, and it needs justification in order to aide suspension of disbelief. There's also an element of "if this, then what?" in Game. Without that element, a narrative can't exist. It would just be a series of disjointed events and things. "If this, then what" promotes a cohesion between the things that exist in the world we're creating. The big difference is we're not worried about doing it all in under two minutes. And we're probably throwing a few other extra things in there too.

If you watch Trust Us, you will also notice that the duo launches into occasional sub-games. Like the part when they're just riffing on different possible meanings for "Cover all your bases." We could easily lift that one part out of the set and look at it as one solid gamey-scene on its own. It just happens to fit into this much larger piece.

I've also heard Game referred to as "what's fun about the scene." The Fun could mean what's funny, or interesting, or dramatic. No matter what kind of improv we do, if we're not following the fun the audience won't go anywhere with us.
 
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#11
Of course they can coexist. I see it all the time. Each scene in an improvised narrative is also a scene by itself, and some of those can be classic game scenes (establish pattern, heighten and explore). Not to mention that in the course of a narrative you can have pop-out scenes that play game and get a quick laugh.

Also, I've seen plenty of Harolds that followed narrative tracks. Some would argue that that's not the most elegant way to do a Harold, but they were what they were. And the scenes contained within them were game-heavy.
 

Holmes

of the Rare Bird Show
#12
It depends on what you mean by 'game' and 'narrative'.

I look at game as 'the interesting thing that is being repeated and heightened.'
I look at narrative/story/plot as 'the stuff that happens'.

Game doesn't have to be a weird thing, a reversal, a commentary, a wacky character/straight character set-up, etc. Those are all just examples of repeating and heightening something.

Narrative/story/plot doesn't have to be deep, emotional, life-changing, a hero arc, a clear-cut beginning/middle/end, or a problem being solved. Those are just examples of stuff that can happen.


If you're a lumberjack who finds a magic flower that takes you to a plant-world and each time you meet someone or something in this new place, you chop it down and kill it ....that's narrative and game.
The narrative is 'this happens and then this happens'.
The game is 'this thing keeps happening'.
 

El Jefe

latitudinarian
Staff member
#13
I don't think comedy exists without some form of game. It may not be the focus of the scene, but you can see the roots of a game regardless. Even in stand up jokes, you can usually disect a game out of each joke.
I (mostly) agree with this. If you look at Anchorman, for example, most of the scenes have an individual game to them. The street fight, the flute solo, the series of on-camera disses... the game is laid out and then heightened. Then there are character games which span the story.

Sure, you can argue that a movie like that has a flimsy narrative, and that's probably true. You can see that with comedies: some concentrate mostly on narrative, and some on the individual scenes. Anchorman's plot may be more of an excuse to have a series of funny moments (the same could be said of American Pie movie or any of the National Lampoon movies), but it's still a plot.
 
#14
It depends on what you mean by 'game' and 'narrative'.

I look at game as 'the interesting thing that is being repeated and heightened.'
I look at narrative/story/plot as 'the stuff that happens'.

Game doesn't have to be a weird thing, a reversal, a commentary, a wacky character/straight character set-up, etc. Those are all just examples of repeating and heightening something.

Narrative/story/plot doesn't have to be deep, emotional, life-changing, a hero arc, a clear-cut beginning/middle/end, or a problem being solved. Those are just examples of stuff that can happen.


If you're a lumberjack who finds a magic flower that takes you to a plant-world and each time you meet someone or something in this new place, you chop it down and kill it ....that's narrative and game.
The narrative is 'this happens and then this happens'.
The game is 'this thing keeps happening'.
What a great way to boil this down. Great insights.
 
#17
You need disciplined improvisers who can drag a scene back to the narrative element and keep a sense of the overarching plot in the back of their minds, but it can be done. Helps if the narrative is in a light-entertainment style though, obviously.
 
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