Don't Think?

[capitolgoga]

Sooo ... just started my level 3 (once started a thread here about experienced folks doing classes at ucb, and now I am posting thoughts once into it - cool? hooray.) Right now the thing I'm struggling with most is balancing not thinking with thinking.

I've never learned so many "tactics" and tricks to game play and strategic improv moves - it always seemed to me that the goal was to get yourself pumped to be as organic as possible - learn skills so you can wipe the slate clean and just let things naturally come out of you. Prior training seemed more about developing as a performer and putting tools in your toolbox- build your skills and know the rules and so you can let em go kinda stuff. UCB really focuses on preplanning and thinking vs "dont think." It's actually pretty helpful, but so odd to me sometimes.

I get it to an extent that you can 'not think' and make moves and take care of things at the same time ...
Just, it's what I have the hardest time with - balancing not trying (to make people laugh) with trying (to make quality scenes, listen, pick up on stuff, make moves, etc). It does seem more acceptable to make moves that are obviously really pre planned in UCB improv vs other schools/performances I've experienced. I don't entirely dislike it because great improv comes out of it - it's just different.

So this is an observation about UCB's teaching style - and a question:
- how do y'all feel about when you're supposed to be pre-thinking vs when you're supposed to be 'not thinking' ?

- Heather

 

[zomby sneakers]

the best shit i've done has all happened in the 'don't think' mindset. it took me a long time to understand 'don't think', and i'll still totally forget it constantly. have you read 'improvise' by mick napier yet? it really helped me understand balancing 'don't think' with all the things we're taught NOT to do, all those rules that get repeated and we try to juggle in our minds when we step out to do a 'good improv scene'. i highly recommend picking it up.

 

[capitolgoga]

Funny you mention Napier - he's one of the instructors I meant when I said previous stuff that taught me not to think. I read a book of his when it was just a manuscript - got passed onto me, so I don't know if it changed- but a lot of it focused on telling the rules to go fuck off ... same book?

 

[Antny]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "pre-thinking," but there's a very big difference between making a strong choice (in a scene or before initiating) and pre-scripting a scene and trying to force a scene in a certain direction.

Having an idea for a strong scene and initiating with that idea can be a very strong move in improv (though, of course, it's not the only way to improvise). But when we initiate with an strong idea, we don't know how our scene partner will respond to it. And it is in that response (and our subsequent response to their response, etc.) that we find our scene. The strong idea we initiated with is simply a jumping off point - the choices we make about it and each other's choices are how we build an actual scene and how we decide what we want to do with that idea.

If, however, you're not interested in how your scene partner responds and you just keep trying to push whatever idea you had in your head when you initiated - then you're not doing good improv and you should just go write that scene on your own.

But to your larger point - you're right - the ultimate goal is to play naturally and truthfully. But like learning any skill or art, you have to get incredibly comfortable with all the basic skills and there are a billion different ways to approach it. Improv classes are about working those skills so that they can, ultimately, become second-nature in performance. A musician learns all sorts of "tactics" and "tricks" to make playing their instrument easier and performance more "natural." The ultimate goal, of course, is to just create music - but you don't get to that state without an amazing amount of work.

And finally - it's important to remember that "Don't Think" was the slogan for the UCB's TV show...which was a scripted show about creating chaos. That's not what improv is about and that slogan is not taught in our classes as any kind of guiding principle.

 

[capitolgoga]

Sorry - re - I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "pre-thinking,"

I want to make it clear I don't think UCB is doing something wrong, but a lot of classes I've had before were all 'you're a genius and everything you do is right and so is your scene partner'

And it does seem that UCB instructors are ballsier in calling you out on things - that there is (maybe not wrong or right) a better way to play and a better choice you could be making. I have found this helpful.

I find UCB classes have specific agendas - you are going to practice these set skills - from strong initiations to really playing the game within the scene. It's great because I feel challenged to really be on top of my shit - to be listening and coming up with things at the same time.

I've always personally fought urges to pre-think or other "standuppy" urges to grab a laugh. But the UCB classes are helping me feel it's ok to incorporate something smart that may enhance what's going on - to embrace something as an instinct rather than overcompensating ... know what I mean?

At UCB I just feel moreso like I am really being held accountable for what I do at all times - that's a good thing. Hard for me to explain but in the last couple classes I had the same feeling - like damn that's a lot of stuff to be thinking about right now.

 

[Antny]

I think it's pretty natural to feel a little overwhelmed as you're learning this approach to improv. But it might help to know that every "rule" in essence boils down to "Yes...And."

Level 1: Build a scene through "yes...and."

Level 2: Find and heighten Game. "If this is true" (YES) then "what else is true?" (AND).

Level 3: Harold. Yes...and is reflected in the overall structure as well. We build first beats (YES) then second and third beats ("what else is true/AND")

And usually, I find, the "better choices" generally boil down to a there being a stronger YES or a stronger AND.

And if you are yes...anding the scene, the game, and your scene partner, then by definition you're not making jokes (since jokes undermine the scene, game, and our scene partner) - so you're free to bring your perspective, ideas, intelligence, and sense of humor to your work all the time. In fact, it's what the people you're improvising with WANT you to do.

 

[benzado]

I'm two weeks into a 501 and I can sympathize: especially in 201, where the focus is on finding the game so you can heighten it for a second beat, I spent a lot of time on the back line wracking my brain, trying to figure out what the first beat was about and how to heighten that in the second. As time and classes went by, this has been less of an issue, I think for two reasons.

First, the more you do anything, the easier it becomes. As you internalize the process you're able to do it all more quickly, so you spend less time thinking about what to do and more time listening and participating in the show. I've also learned that it is a mistake overthink things when asking "what was that scene about?" and usually the simple response is the best.

Second, similar to what Katey said, I've learned through experience that the best scenes come when I step out with no idea of where they are going to go. At first when I got called out bad scenes, I sort of assumed the answer was to have a better plan next time. This is usually how you fix problems in life: next time you prepare more. But when initiating, thinking beyond my first line is counter productive (I'll never know what the second line will be) so I put more effort into making a stronger choice with that first line (e.g., what's my character's emotion? what is he doing with his hands? is he concerned about keeping his shirt clean?), rather than trying to plan ahead.

Likewise I've learned it's good to make choices even when I'm stepping out to respond to an initiation (e.g., my character just bought this shirt and wants to keep them clean). Sometimes that choice winds up informing the first thing I say, and maybe makes it seem preplanned, but in reality I was just giving myself something a perspective to work with. Sometimes nothing in the scene threatens the cleanliness of my shirt, and so nobody ever knows about that specific that I was thinking.

 

[benorbeen]

Heather,

For me, the instruction "Don't think" is relative to the habits of some (many) improv performers.

Some people get up onstage and face another improviser who adds information to the scene.

Meanwhile, these people then choose to think about how they will respond to that information.

As this happens, the clock is ticking, the audience is watching. "Say something!" goes through the heads of the audience as they watch these people.

"Don't think" becomes the instruction to these people, because instead, these people choose to "Think."

Now, "Don't think" is not a very good instruction, because it doesn't tell these people what to do. It only tells them what not to do. Thus, the instruction freezes these people onstage when they follow it ("Don't think").

The word "thinking" is a word that covers a whole bunch of different internal behaviors.

That is, it's a general word. It stands for debating, deliberating, guessing, comparing, contrasting, picking the best response, guarding against a bad response, among many other behaviors. All of these specific behaviors could be called "thinking."

So...

"Don't think" essentially aims to get the person to address whatever specific internal behavior she is doing and to make a different choice.

I believe most of the time, "Don't think" tries to get the improviser to address her deliberating after information has been introduced, and instead tries to get her to "React without thinking," or "Just respond," or "Say something," or "Do something," or any number of things other than keeping the audience waiting for a response.

Now...

As for "pre-thinking," that sounds to me you're talking about scripting a scene.

This is improv you're doing. You can define "improv" a number of ways. I tend to define it these days as "unscripted theater."

Specifically, the content is unscripted, even if the form (like a Harold or La Ronde) is scripted.

Being that you're doing unscripted theater, any scripting you bring into your show before the suggestion is inappropriate (in my eyes).

Now, ideas will come to you during your show, related to and inspired by the suggestion.

Say you're in the backline during a scene and an idea inspired by the current scene or the suggestion comes to you.

You don't go into the scene immediately. Instead, you hold back, and wait for an edit.

Then you start your scene with that idea.

For me, there is nothing wrong with that. In some sense, that's what you're supposed to do.

You didn't come up with anything before the show or before the suggestion. You came up with something during the show, inspired by the suggestion.

Where I would have issue is if after you've said your opening line, you try to force the other improviser in the direction you're going IF she goes somewhere that surprises you.

That is, I would take issue if you opened with "I'm Kristen!" and your scene partner said "Welcome to AA, Kristen!," and you tried to continue with your whole Elliot Spitzer gag despite a clear movement toward something less topical and more mundane.

The instruction that they came up with at The Compass in St. Louis was roughly "Don't deny verbal reality."

If someone says something, it exists.

Scripting a scene can put you in a place where you deny the reality someone else introduces. Your desire to go the Spitzer route can have you not paying attention that you're in an AA meeting.

That is, scripting limits your listening.

And the audience is listening to everything.

-Ben

 

[capitolgoga]

Ok, so on a more basic level when you are talking think vs don't think -
it's really important to be listening and remembering
in this listening and remembering you are thinking, and not letting go.
And that helps build.

So how's about balancing the remembering that happens after the listening - with your being pure and neutral? I agree with the other comment that kinda stuff comes more naturally over time, but gosh darn it, it's tricky.

Before UCB I thought all these rememberings came from the organic nature of group mind - but UCB has been stressing the listening and remembering more - once again, an observation.

 

[PorterMason]

I think we try and "Don't Think" in shows, but in rehearsal and class, we certainly think. Like Anthony said, you force yourself to think about some things that maybe don't come naturally to you, so that you'll have those instincts effortlessly later during scenes and shows.

I'm glad we're calling you out on stuff, Heather! And I'm glad you like it. (I personally have called Heather out on scenes, so I'm glad she enjoyed it. ) Some people are turned off by it, but I definitely find that an honest approach is best. No lipstick for pigs and all that.

When we do stinktown scenes, what's more helpful: pretending it was beautiful and perfect, or seeing how we could've turned it around so that next time we have a fighting chance of doing a more satisfying scene?

I hope that what gets across to students is that beautiful, organic, truthful work is the goal, but along the way there's a lot of non-organic hard work!

 

[MichelleD]

Thanks for this thread. It's very helpful!

 

[benorbeen]

I don't know: I wonder if the training you're getting is putting you in your head as opposed to just getting you out there and reacting as Heather Fink reacts. And if there is too much Heather Fink in every character, I wonder if it's just a matter of pushing you to react in different ways outside Heather Fink.

I say the above because a few times you mention balancing. If you are in the moment asking yourself "for balance's sake" which you should do, A or B, you've taken a moment longer than necessary--just react, respond, given something to the scene and to the other player.

A great improv scene is a bit like an echo chamber: You add one thing, and it bounces around and gets bigger without any effort on your part, colliding with other things and making new things. But if you don't add a sound, nothing.

As far as I'm concerned, you have organic abilities as a human being. Of those is remembering, of those is listening. You do them to various extents, some of which are probably impressive, others of which could use some improvement but are pretty damn decent.

The advice to listen and to remember is implied by some of the other principles ("rules") of improv. For example, "Accept verbal reality" ("Don't deny verbal reality") implies "Listen." That is, if you don't listen, you can't hear what others say, which means you can't appreciate the reality they construct in a scene.

I mean, overall, nothing you contribute to a scene is bad or wrong or incorrect. We're not talking about something codified like ballet. Even the most bad-seeming or wrong-seeming contributions to a scene can be made into brilliant additions to scenes--some audience members might even call your bad-seeming move "genius." It happens, often. The issue (for me as a teacher) becomes whether the person does the same things over and over, such that she doesn't improve or continually puts a heavy burden on her scene partners. I can't say if that's you. I totally believe, Heather, given your experience you have all of the organic abilities.

Overall, forget about "Don't think" and instead, "React." React in different ways. React instantaneously. React slowly. React pensively. React recklessly. React organically. React inorganically. React honestly. React dishonestly. React in character. React as yourself. React as Laura Bush. React as John Wayne Bobbit. But make sure you "React." In contrast, unless it's intentional on your part, "Avoid not giving a reaction." There will be no police there to come down on your if you "Think." Just challenge yourself to "React."

 

[El Jefe]

Often, non-improvisors will ask how we can "rehearse" improv. I tell them that our practices are a lot like practicing a sport. You run drills and practice specific skills so that you can play effortlessly when it's game day.

A beginning pitcher has a lot to think about: his grip, his windup, how to keep an eye on the runner at first without letting it screw up his pitch, etc. By the time he plays in the big leagues, this is all second nature, and he doesn't think about what to do when a line drive whistles past his left ear and he has runners on first and third. He just does it.

DON'T THINK might be a stand-in for a couple different ideas: DON'T PLAN YOUR SCENES, and PRACTICE GOOD HABITS UNTIL THEY BECOME SECOND NATURE.

EDITED TO ADD: Don't worry about being in your head in that beginning-intermediate stage of improv. It's really frustrating and probably everyone goes through it. Plus, let's face it: you're still playing with a lot of people you wouldn't necessarily choose to play with, many of whom may be months away from quitting improv forever. Think of this as training in high altitudes for the Olympics.

 

[sharilyn]

I started reading your post and thought "god, this is exactly how I feel having just finished 201!"... and then I realized it was you posting. Howdy, classmate!

I'm glad for this thread. Thanks to those who have responded to it thusfar; I'm sure there are many looking for similar advice. I always heard about people having trouble after 201, and now I know what they meant.

 

[mike short]

Don't think. Just be.

 

[SixSider]

I tend to think of all those rules as things I'm trying to become "muscle memory." Second nature so that I don't think about them anymore. If I get those things drilled into me during class/practices, when I get to the excitement of a show, I don't worry about them as much. They're just there.

Listening and remembering is just part of the package for everything. Specifics had depth to scenes and to characters.

Fully agree with the word "React." The problem with reacting in the beginning and intermediate stages is that often our totally "natural" reaction to initiations would often be (1) blasé/nothing (if the initiation was something slight or super-neutral, (2) anger (as so many initiations are somewhat confrontation even when they don't mean to be), (3) to call your scene parter crazy, or (4) to ask a follow up question (if you don't know what the hell they're talking about.

All of the stuff that is geared towards game and such for (are me at least) are things that are there to help the scene not meander and not go off the rails. If you get it so that part of your brain you don't even have to focus on is doing the work of looking for patterns and absorbing new information, then you can put the rest of your brain to being "in the moment."

I am reminded of taking creative writing classes at a very liberal liberal arts school. Most of the teachers followed the touchy-feely "it is your art so there are no wrong answers." So much energy was spent on telling people that everything they did was good that no actual learning was taking place. They were right. There is no "wrong" answer in (dare I say it) art. There is "not good" or not "entertaining." In class I want to be poked and prodded to (1) be better and (2) expand my range of things I can do. Personally, I those moments you step out, make eye contact with your partner and realize that neither of you have any idea what to do. Those moments of being lost and then discovering can feel so good. But I also want to be able to draw a full game from the opening and be able to initiate it clearly and concisely (and, man, am I so far away from that).

As to being "clever," there is a big difference from that and being jokey. Jokey is "Look at me and how smart I am" or "This is an hilarious premise." Being clever and smart is just playing to your own intelligence. And it also means playing true to the characters, the scene and the piece as a whole. To make a horrible comparison, Two And A Half Men vs. The Office. TAHM tends to deliver "funny lines." TO tends to get its humor from who the characters are. Both can be "clever," but a funny line leaves little room for your partner to move forward with.

For me it is not a balance issue. Both can exist in harmony. You can have strong game with natural characters and reacting. It's just getting to the point where you can do both.

And, of course, all rules are meant to be broken. It's just damn good to know when you are breaking them.

 

[iammattfried]

Don't think. Just be.

Agreed.

Here was a discovery I found in my recent class experiences: in trusting others, you have to trust yourself.

The mind does really weird, funny things when all we do is listen. I'm referring to those group mind exercises at the beginning. If you just listen to what is being generated without judgement, your brain will note everything and it will find ways to work into your scene work. If you stop trying so hard to remember, you'll be surprised to find what your "muscle memory" (as Chris puts it) will pick up.

Try it, if you'd like.

Try just following your instincts with an impulse, Heather, based on just listening. Napier himself even says "Just make a choice. Whatever choice - it doesn't matter - but make a strong, clear choice."

 

[APally]

http://newyork.ucbtheatre.com/performers/438

 

[zomby sneakers]

http://newyork.ucbtheatre.com/performers/438

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/showthread.php?t=53627&highlight=erik+tanouye

 

[zomby sneakers]

i've found that differentiating between 'thinking' and 'processing' has helped me in scenes too. i can totally process and then execute my character's response to something, but stepping out of the scene and thinking about what to say or do next doesn't help the scene or my scene partners. that's not to say that slowing down and really listening to and reacting to what your scene partner is saying or doing isn't really important, but stopping to think about my next move is disastrous for me, as well as usually being indicative of no-choice-uptop.

here is an example: i've been thinking in this thread (scene) way too much. 'i shouldn't say that, i suck at improv, ugh, wtf is wrong with me, nobody cares what you have to say, you have no business adding anything to this discussion, etc. etc'; so i say nothing except maybe to post a snarky reply. but if i just process my response as the character i established at the start of the thread, one who isn't filled with nigh-on crippling self doubt and just reply my gut response, i can keep the thread (scene) moving with something substantial to discuss (play with).

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