Digital Video that looks more like Film

#1



Now you can shoot stuff that will look more like Film because it shoots 24 frames per second, pretty groovy....here's the article.


LAS VEGAS, NV (April, 7, 2002) - Panasonic Broadcast & Television Systems Company has introduced the AG-DVX100 24P DV Cinema™ Camera, the world's first mini-DV camcorder to capture cinema-style, 24-frame progressive-scanned images.

Representing a revolutionary leap in digital video technology, the palm-size AG-DVX100 is equipped with three, newly-developed 1/3" 410,000-pixel progressive- scan CCDs that allow the camcorder to capture high-sensitivity images in both standard 60-field-per-second NTSC (interlace scan) and also at 24-frames-per-second progressive scan. Twenty-four frames per second is the frame rate that many primetime programs, television commercials and independent movies originate in. The popularity of 24P camcorders - such as Panasonic's AJ-HDC27 Varicam™ variable-frame HD Cinema™ camera - is due to the fact that they produce a close approximation to the "look" of film, and offer a significant savings in production costs.

"With its 24-frame capture capabilities, the AG-DVX100 democratizes visual storytelling by substantially reducing the cost of entry for digital filmmakers" said Stuart English, Vice President, Marketing, Panasonic Broadcast. "The AG-DVX100 is a forward-looking tool that integrates with existing IEEE-1394 based non-linear editing platforms and will allow the creative community, whether video journalists, digital cinematographers or event videographers, to express their visions at the highest creative level."

The ultra-compact 4.4-pound AG-DVX100 delivers outstanding digital picture quality with low smear and flare, and offers a high sensitivity with a minimum illumination of 3 lux at F11. The camcorder's IEEE-1394 digital interface makes it easy to download video to PC-based nonlinear editing systems. For quick and easy operation, the camcorder is equipped with a newly-developed lens with manual zoom, manual focus and manual iris and a focal length with a wide field of view (f3.25 to 325mm). Its professional audio capabilities including two-channel, built-in XLR inputs and a phantom power supply (48V). It also offers large manual audio controls.

The digital camcorder has two neutral-density filters; a large, easy-to-view electronic viewfinder; and a flip-out 3.5" LCD panel that makes monitoring shooting a breeze. The AG-DVX100 will be available in September at a suggested list price of approximately $3,495.
 

Nick Mougis

our mutual friend.
#3
this is cool, but i don't like panasonic cameras. i've used their dvc-pro cams, and their mini dv cams. the dvc-pros are nice but huge, the dv cams were wack.

i'll wait till canon or sony does this up.

or, until i can afford a camera :flip:
 
#5
Cannon does!

The new Cannon XL1 is one of the best DV cams out there. Soderberg just used the XL1S for the film Full Frontal and it's the only camera I work with. Not that others aren’t better, or could be more advantageous in different areas, just found it's the most complete camera out there. Only drawbacks are that it has is 30 Frames per second(still looks like film), and on the older models (2001 and back) even on manual focus it sometimes has lens "puffs". But since its DV and not film, burn as much tape as you like and do another take. Article on the old XL1 that might help:

http://www.falseclocks.com/falseclocks/timeline/toys_r_us/pages/canon.html

Regularly shoot short comedy films on this and it offers the most flexibility of any other camera. Besides, it's one of the camera's the porno industry uses so who am I to discount the magic of adult films. Have a short film currently running on ATOMFILMS if you want to see the quality:

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/according_darth

Rock on to all, and happy filmmaking!

Bolger
 
#6
Re: Cannon does!

The new Cannon XL1 is one of the best DV cams out there. Soderberg just used the XL1S for the film Full Frontal and it's the only camera I work with. Not that others aren’t better, or could be more advantageous in different areas, just found it's the most complete camera out there. Only drawbacks are that it has is 30 Frames per second(still looks like film), and on the older models (2001 and back) even on manual focus it sometimes has lens "puffs". But since its DV and not film, burn as much tape as you like and do another take. Article on the old XL1 that might help:
Yeah, I've heard the same from tons of people about the XL1S but I'd have to disagree with the "still looks like film" statement, unless you meant it looks like film after it's transfered to film. I haven't seen any DV camera that produces film like quality unless it's transfered to film....and for the average person, it's way too expensive to do. Have you seen the Chuck & Buck dvd? The difference is friggen amazing when you see the movie (DV transfered to film) and some of the cut scenes (just plain ol DV)....I haven't used the Panasonic 24 frames per second joint yet, but I'm curious to see how much it actually looks like film (before transfering).
 
#7
I was all set to purchase an XL1S. And I read all the press and ads about Soderberg using them for Full Frontal. But my roommate (a gaffer) told me to hold off because the next generation was coming out according to American Cinematographer. This could be what he was talking about.

24 fps video has been around forever, though. At least since I was in school. I don't know why it took so long to come to dv.
 
#8
Choo Choo Andee,

You got it! The 30 frames per second still transfers back to film and looks just great. Haven't seen the Panasonic yet but I can't tell you this, in that price range and it being a 3 chip unit, it's still going to look like video. The type of thing your looking for is called the Sony 24P and it is the closest thing you can get to actual 35mm film. It runs for between
$130,000-$230,00 or more brand new. Rental is also expensive.

The Panasonic you would want to be at this level and run you about the same is this:

http://www.lemac.com.au/rental/cat/fpdf/20-23.pdf

The Sony 24P is the best camera in this group cause you can let the tape run, it's lightweight in comparison, and postproduction is plug and play to look at dailies. Once again those little savvy pricks in marketing and advertising at Panasonic are screwing with perception. They call it "cinema-style" or the "look" of film only cause its 24 frames per second. Not because it actually LOOKS like film. If it did, Lucas could cut his production costs and use it instead. It is still beneath Cannon in this range of DV cameras in my opinion but try it out for yourself to make sure.

Oh and macoule30, I think this new XL1S is the thing he's talking about. It has none of the problems of the old XLS(air puffs) and added features. Peace out!

Bolger
 
#9
"The type of thing your looking for is called the Sony 24P and it is the closest thing you can get to actual 35mm film."
The thing about this particular Panasonic miniDV camcorder is that it is, in fact, 24P. 24 frames per second and progressive scan. That is why it is getting so much attention. For those who don't know...24 frames a second is what real film is displayed at, and will give the video a "film look" (because of the way the brain perceives images displayed in that manner.)

One big difference, of course, between this Panasonic miniDV 24P camcorder and Sony's mucho expensive 24P (HD) camera, is the resolution. (Not to mention the compression of the MiniDV format, and the lenses, and a whole bunch of other stuff.) MiniDV at 24P is still pretty low resolution, compared to real 16 or 35mm film...or HighDefinition 24P video (like the super high-end Sonys.)

However, it's still a fact that (all other things being equal) this Panasonic 24P camera will make video look more like film than a Canon XL1s (or Sony VX-2000...or similar camera) would at this price...mainly because it's doin' its 24P thingy. That's why the Panasonic is getting everyone all worked up.

I'd be curious, though, if and when Canon and Sony get out their models. They'd better get something to market with 24P MiniDV, because there's a lot of interest.

-Terry
 
Last edited:
#10
However, it's still a fact that this Panasonic 24P camera will make video look more like film than a Canon XL1s (or Sony VX-2000...or similar camera) would at this price. That's why the Panasonic is getting everyone all worked up.
Yeah, that's what piqued my interest. I'm not looking to spend 100K, but if they have a 24fps mini dv camera that's only slightly over the price of a VX2000, I'm interested. However, I haven't used one so I can't make any judgements. I think if it's true it's a great option for people that never plan to transfer to film and have micro budgets. I'd probably wait for a Sony though, I love Sony.
 
#11
Yeah...me too. I own a Sony VX-2000, and have shot several shorts with it. I don't necessarily plan on transferring things to film. However, a camera that approximated a "film look" without dealing with film (and something that has an option to be transferred to film without dealing with 3:2 pulldown and all that) would be cool to have.

From reading a bit about this Panasonic MiniDV 24P camera (on http://www.2-pop.com mostly), this camera can output 24P or it can do a 3:2 pulldown and conversion to 60fps interlaced video within the camera. So the firewire would output regular NTSC video, but with a "film look". And, apparently, the 3:2 pulldown stuff is something that can be 'reversed' in case you ever wanted to transfer the 24P video to film (because of their specific 3:2 pulldown technique.)

Sounds cool to me.

-Terry
 
#12
Terry J/CCA,

None of us know if looks better than the Cannon XL1S cause we've never seen a sample of it. Or have you? With that price range, and those capabilities I'd love to see something shot with it, or a sample. There are none I can find which makes me very suspect. If the "look" and "feel" are so close to film you'd think two things: They would have a highly visible sample cause they would be proud to display it, or they would charge more for bringing this technology to light. Don't get me wrong, I hope it is does "look" like film, but being 6 fps less than a cannon for a pseudo-film feel wouldn't make me trade in all the qualities the XL1S currently has over the Panasonic. Hope for DV filmmakers everywhere it does deliver cause it would be nice cost effective tool to have...peace out!

Bolger
 
#13
I never said it looked better than the XL1S, I have no idea. I do know that I'd give up a ton of features to have DV that looked even a little bit more like film. Where are you looking for samples?
 
#14
I'm not sure if the Panasonic will actually 'look better' (and I think I was careful not to actually state that) as opposed to giving the video the illusion of being film. Obviously one good test of general image quality would be a head-to-head between the Canon XL1s and the Panasonic in regular 60fps interlaced mode. Of course, afterwards, then comparisons could be made between the XL1s and the Panasonic's 24P mode, to see if it was 'better' (even though it's comparing a 24P apple to a 60i apple.)

There aren't any formal press reviews of this new Panasonic...nor have I seen any footage. The official release date is October 10th. Apparently the camera was demoed at the LA DV show recently, and the sample had just arrived at that show from Japan. They didn't have a real "demo reel" yet to show it off. The casual reviewers seemed to like it (from what I gathered from the 2-pop.com forums.)

Here is one 'review':
http://2-pop.5thavehosting.com/cgi-bin/discussion/forums/cameras.cgi?read=24834

Feature-wise, the Panasonic does seem on-par with other cameras.

So, like I said, assuming all things are relatively equal, this seems like a really cool camera, and one that I'd be interested in getting. (And yeah, It'd replace my VX-2000...)

Now, if Canon made a 24P XL1 or if Sony made a 24P VX-2000...that would be nice. I suspect they should get on that right away if they knew what was good for them.

-Terry
 
#15
Yeah me neither, but would like too...asked everyone I know in film(Directors, principle photographers from Chicago, LA, and NYC), Panasonic's Website, did google searches for films shot with it, and even called Panasonic sales rep two weeks ago to find anything to look at. His response: "ummmmmm...no, but I can send you a brochure". Oh and no worries, just stating that none of us know and we'd like to. Let's all make it a point to get a sample here as soon as someone can get a hold of one...

Bolger
 
#17
Great article

Thanks. Did see that article a couple days ago. The key line in that review for me was:

"Did it look like film? No. But it's a lot closer to film than shooting 60i. And because 24p image capture is a huge component of the film look, with the proper lighting, filtration, and gamma set-up, this camera will likely come close (not to mention it facilitates transfer to film, if one wishes to do so)."

I'd still like to get my hands on it and give it a test drive to see what it could do. Until then, for my shooting style, Cannon gives me all I ask for that level camera.
 
#18
CCA,

Nope, meant VHS, or DVD hard copy...thanks for offering, that would be great! Kind of looking for a demo reel from Panasonic if possible. E-mail me and I'll send you my address. My e-mail is jbolger00@hotmail.com. Thanks again that is very kick ass of you!

Bolger
 
Top