Changes in how I handle "off-topic" journals

[mullaney]

I have been thinking for some time about how to handle the schism that has been developing on this board for some time. I've have tried to think of ways to allow it to be an open forum and yet retain it's character as a board where improvisors can come together to discuss and write about improvisation and other stuff.

A number of recent threads as well as a number of real life conversations have convinced me that I need to change how things work around here. I think I am finally ready to listen to some of these voices.

First off, I do want to point out that there has been some positive contributions made by the "porn clerk" interlopers to our board. I am loath to demonize people who have been inspired by Ali's journal to try their hand at creating journals themselves. I like the presence of people like Sandbag, Gypsy, L D, deb_u_taunt2003 and others who have befriended this board and have developed a genuine curiosity about what we do.

However, I must admit that making this an open journaling zone now feels like a mistake. I am therefore going to propose the following changes to how this board is run:

1. Within a few days, perhaps as soon as tomorrow night, I will close the "off-topic journals" forum to new threads. Those who already have an active journal will be able to continue to update their journals, but newcomers will not be able to start them.
2. I will change the name and purpose of the "improv journals" forum to "journals by impovisors". I will move old journals like "true porn clerk stories" and "my daily beverage" back into that forum, as well as move others by improvisors on request.
3. I will change the way you can start a new journal to prevent random newcomers from starting them. For instance, I may create a user group called "verified improvisors". This group will have normal posting privaledges, but also be the only group that can start new improv journals. Or I will simply moderate all new improv journals.
4. I will post clear guidelines in the journals forums to explain the purpose of the journals forum and suggest alternatives to non-improvisors who wish to try their hand at journaling themselves.

I would like to hear your thoughts on these changes before I implement them. I'm especially interested in the thoughts of long-time users of this board, people who before we jumped the shark.

 

[Katy]

sounds good. what will be the verification process for improvisors? also, i noticed on one journal that had been moved from off-topic to off-topic journals it says "moved" next to the title- how long will that be up?

 

[mullaney]

When I move a thread, I often leave a redirect for a few days so the author can find their thread. Eventually, the redirect will be pruned.

 

[spacedani]

yes

I like those ideas. Made me think that maybe someday, I might start a journal again here.

 

[mullaney]

Perhaps it's just the holiday weekend, but this has spawned remarkably little debate. I'm going to start making the changes.

 

[brown_eyed_girl]

I was a bit wary to make any comments. But I do think it's a good idea. But I feel like a bit of a hyprocrit. I sort of jumped right into a journal not long after finding this place. I of course saw a link to Ali's journal and took a look at it. But I was more interested in Terry Jinn's old beverage journal. For some reason I thought it was an amazing idea.

Uhh.. anyway. I think it's a good idea to cut off the off-topic journals. I had toyed with the idea of taking mine to another journal specific website, but honestly I just like it here. I like the format of the journals, and I like the feedback that we get. I like the message boards, I've learned a lot since I've posted here and I do appreciate that.

Keep up the good work

 

[Gypsy]

My worthless two cents:

I know I'm not an improvisor, and I know I'm not one of the people the journals forum was originally intended for when it was created. So, I sort of have a guilt by association thing going on.

Yes, I did find this site via a link to Ali's journal, and read it from beginning to end before I even looked around at anything else. The second thing I did was read more journals. Eventually I got to the point where I was subscribed to several journals and discovering there were maybe one in ten new ones that I was interested in, and started (finally) looking around at the rest of the site.

In short, I'm technically a major bandwidth sucker who gives little back, and I know it.

I fell in love with the off-topic forum because I never knew what I was going to find there from one day (or moment, even) to the next. I read that forum for a long time before I posted anything to it, because I needed a 'feel' for what was appropriate. I didn't want to stick my foot in my mouth and piss anyone off, in other words. Well, I spose I did that anyway, obviously. I learned that a lot of what I was making heartfelt replies to was in fact only (mostly) a bit to start with, and I had no idea what the hell I was talking about. Ah well. So I was ignorant, and I was told so. Yet, I was told so on the chat server - when I asked. He was gentle and dipolomatic, yet honest, and I appreciated knowing why folks never really 'conversed' with me when I posted. I learned something about myself, the site, and the people here, because of that conversation. I like that.

The problem isn't that the forums (journal and otherwise) are open, the problem is that people glance around for a handful of seconds, make a snap judgement as to what this place is meant to be, and what it means to the people who have been here since the beginning, and spout off. Yes, I know, everyone realizes this, I'm stating the obvious.

I hate to admit it, but I do rather support the idea of limiting brand new newbies abilities to post journals, making themselves at home before they've even walked through the house to see if they like it. I feel so hypocritical and condescening saying that, I really do, I feel guilty. And yet, I can't help thinking that if folks have to spend a little time here getting to know the family, figure out where the bathroom is, and how the furniture is arranged, which cabinet holds the glasses and where the spoons are - before they move in and try to take over, it would alleviate a lot of the upset.

It's like being on IRC (not THE IRC), chatting. You don't join a channel as a brand new person to the regulars there and get ops, and therefore the power to kick, ban, change the topic. That is something that is earned over time (if ever at all), by proving yourself to be compatible to those that were already there, trusted, level-headed. Moderators of chat channels never hand out ops to newbies, chaos would ensue. Some channels don't even offer + (voice, the ability to 'speak' in the channel) to strangers, because people can join, act like idiots just to stir bullshit for fun....and they (the regulars) want a comfortable laid back place to call 'home'. They don't want new neighbors barging in knocking over lamps, hurling insults, and painting ugly graffiti on the walls.

I know that if the journals forum had been closed to newbies when I arrived here, I still would have looked around, hung out as a lurker for awhile, and figured the place out a little. I might have PM'd you to ask what I needed to do to prove myself so I could start a journal. I might have assumed that I'd never have a journal here, without asking. I might have stayed long enough to feel brave about asking questions. I might have assumed it was a closed good ole boys club, and moved on. Since I tend to fear embarrassing myself and yet I have a strong curiosity, I probably would have lurked a long time, found a safe way to ask my questions...and then moved on.

I know I value this site more because I do have the outlet that you so graciously allow than I would have if my journal didn't exist. I respect this place as something of value to many people, and though I occasionally get in a silly mood and reply to threads designed to be nothing more than completely silly posts about body parts...I tend to keep my mouth shut if I have nothing worthwhile to contribute. No, I'm not patting myself on the back or holding myself above anyone or looking down my nose at anyone. I do all this because I don't want to invoke anyone's ire and be banned. I desire the respect of other people, that's just the way I am, period. I do wish that more people treated people and the guidelines with respect, though. This thread wouldn't exist if they did.

Mullaney, do whatever you see is necessary to keep this site as close to your original intent as you can. The site wasn't built for us 'newbies'. I find it sad that you feel the need to close off the ability for new journals, but I can also see merit in the idea.

I do have a question, though. If I decided to close Ramblings of a Single Mom and start a new journal...perhaps I'd want to change my theme or something, I dunno...would you allow me to start a new journal? Is this a clamp on ALL new journals in that forum, period, or is it a matter of permission after proving oneself?

I think if people knew that they'd be allowed to start a journal if they earned the respect of the folks (YOU) the site 'belongs' to, maybe things might be different around here.

And that is my long, rambling, worthless two cents.

Gypsy

 

[Eric Appel]

I think if people knew that they'd be allowed to start a journal if they earned the respect of the folks (YOU) the site 'belongs' to, maybe things might be different around here.

I think the point is, if they're not improvisors their journals don't belong on this site. It's not just about new users vs. old users. Part of it has to do with the intentions of this website, which was designed for improvisors to converse with eachother.

 

[Car]

Hurray!

 

[Gypsy]

I think the point is, if they're not improvisors their journals don't belong on this site.

....the intentions of this website, (which) was designed for improvisors to converse with eachother.

Point duly noted. Thank you for the clarity.

Gypsy

 

[tombuazit]

I pmed this, but thought that maybe it would be more helpful here.

so with the new journal rules, should I start to move my journal in the off topic forum to another website? I see you said that I can continue adding to it, but if you are phasing out the non-improv style journals, then I assume that eventually you will remove all of the non-improv journals? Just trying to be proactive and helpful.

Also I see you put links down for other journal style webpages, does anyone have any suggestions for a good alternative site?

dan

 

[mullaney]

I don't think that I will phase them out altogether. I know that people have put a lot of work into their journals, and I doesn't seem like a good idea to kick people off. The worst I would do is somehow split the forum into two separate sites.

 

[spacedani]

Also I see you put links down for other journal style webpages, does anyone have any suggestions for a good alternative site?

livejournal.com
diaryland.com
blogspot.com
blogeasy.com
bloggingnetwork.com
ujournal.org
20six.com
blog-city.com
donutheadz.com
invisiblog.com
mindsay.com
salon.com/blogs
sparkpod.com
tonguewag.com
webblogger.com
blog.tripod.lycos.com
typepad.com
zblogger.com
weblogs.com

more:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Weblogs/

 

[Frank Gondorchin]

Thank you, Kevin.

 

[dpshane]

Kevin,

What will be the basis of determining who is a "Verified Improvisor?"

Do they currently have to be active improvisors? If someone was to take a break, do they get dropped?

I'm working more on acting right now but I still consider myself an improvisor.

Doug

 

[mullaney]

Believe me, it's not going to be hard to become a "verified improvisor". I just approved two new improv journals by people I have never met simply because of the content of their first journal entry.

 

[Ross White]

Doug,

I obviously can't put words into Kevin's mouth, but when you look at the Fortunados and the DanTelfers of the world, I think you can see that people who aren't currently improvising can still add quite a bit to the dialog that happens by way of the improv (now "journals by improvisers") journals. And some of them return to improv, as DanTelfer has recently done.

So, my guess is that if you join this community as an improviser, and someone here can vouch for the fact that you're performing or taking classes, you're in good shape even if you pursue other things but consider yourself to have an active interest in improv. Which you obviously do.

And the distinction of "journals by improvisers" gives you free reign to discuss whatever it is you want to discuss, not just improv.

I'll obviously wait for Mullaney to give the final word, but that's what I have taken from the events of the last couple days.


Edit: I see that Mullaney gave the final word while I was composing a response. I'm such a doofus.

 

[Gypsy]

I am a person who has an interest, but no way of doing anything about it whatsoever, mostly due to my geographic location and joint custody situation. Curiosity doesn't count, though. I get that part.

My question is this: Kevin, do you wish/want/prefer/hope that the folks like me who journal but aren't improvisors just take the hint and leave? There are really good, interesting journals being closed left and right due to the new rules making it seem clear to them that their presence is unwelcome. It kind of makes me feel like I should be following the migration, even though I truly don't want to go. I'm known to be pretty stubborn, and my intention was not to leave unless I was asked to by you. I know you haven't done that, but if the case is that you just don't want to come right out and ask but you're hoping for that result...

I don't want to stay where I'm not wanted. I suddenly feel like I'm making a fool of myself by staying, and yet I really like it here and have grown very fond of so many people - not just journalers. I'm loathe to leave simply because you've stopped new journals from being started, but if the eventual plan is to phase out current journals too, there's no point in my staying.

And yes, I do realize how whiney this sounds. Please know it isn't meant as a whine, but as a genuine question, borne of genuine concern. I never felt like I was destroying something good, until today. I'm no longer sure of what I should do.

 

[mullaney]

Speaking for myself, Gypsy. I'd like you to stick around. You, like Sandbag, have a five star thread devoted to you. :up:

 

[deb_u_taunt2003]

I feel the same as Gypsy. I think that there were a lot of new journals being started, but very few lasted. Usually they posted a few times then went away.

Those that have lasted are now closing their doors (old lady, dano, gov't man), so I feel silly posting here. Especially since the truth is coming out from the improvers against we "randoms."

I agree with minou in her last post. http://www.improvisation.ws/mb/showthread.php?p=192621#post192621